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> Books on Planetariums, There aren't that many!!
Ron Walker
post May 11 2007, 11:38 AM
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QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ May 10 2007, 08:34 PM) *
Well it is 183 pages long and has the best illustrations on the Zeiss projector that I have ever seen. Also has a nice foldout on the projector. The book starts with the historical development and then goes into an explanation of the complex astronomical motions that the Zeiss projector is capable of reproducing. It then goes into the auxillary projectors and control. The book finishes up with details on historical planetariums which house Zeiss projectors. A great book which I can not say enough about.

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com


Sounds like almost an exact copy of the Helmut Werner book "From the Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium". I wonder how close the two really are.
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Ron Walker
post May 11 2007, 11:43 AM
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QUOTE(Ken Miller @ May 11 2007, 08:08 AM) *
Ron

I am still intending to get those Spitz chapter titles and summaries for you, but I am really busy and haven't had time. I will get it posted by sime time this weekend, unless somebody beats me to it.


Thanks Ken, no big rush.
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Ron Walker
post May 11 2007, 11:48 AM
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QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 11 2007, 03:13 AM) *
nah he said hes working on it.. as far as chapters, its not like a book, its more of a rolling thesis - you guys are well read on this stuff, i didnt know most of it, most interesting to me is talk of spitz's soft soap prototype

'armond spitzs original prototype was a gallon-size soft soap can perforated with hand tools in the kitchen of his Landsdown, PA home in early 1945. Grace Spitz later recalled, 'armand used a highspeed electric drill, which he purchased for about a dollar, and drilled a series of holes, some of them in his hand. '

he actually used THIS MODEL to pitch to financial backers!

owen, all this talk of illegal copies etc has spooked me, im going to forward your 20 bucks to brent, who seems reclusive, he doesnt want his email on HPA's website even, i did give it out here - ron you will remember i was hard to find at first -

the title officially is

i AM starting a list of these hard to find books so they will be in one handy place just like ken/rons list of bulbs etc.

gare


Interesting, you can't find him to buy a copy, but he doesn't want copies made. Perhaps you can invite him over to the forum where he can have a different web identity and talk with us.
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Owen Phairis
post May 11 2007, 01:04 PM
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QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 11 2007, 10:38 AM) *
Sounds like almost an exact copy of the Helmut Werner book "From the Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium". I wonder how close the two really are.


Having both, I can tell you that, although similiar, you need to have both books. I think the German title was (is): "Das Zeiss Planetarium" which is not the same as the pamphlet published much earlier with the same title.

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com
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Ken Miller
post May 11 2007, 08:49 PM
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QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 11 2007, 10:43 AM) *
Thanks Ken, no big rush.


Here is an outline of the Brent Abbatantuono Thesis on Spitz and the University of Florida Planetarium

Chapter 1: To Model the Heavens
A. Non Mechanical Planetarium Predecessors
....1) Stellar Maps
....2) Armillary Spheres
B. Mechanical Planetary Machines
....1) Orreries
....2) Pierced Star Globes
C. Notes

Chapter 2: The Zeiss Projection Planetarium
A. Simulating the Stars
....1) The Wonder of Jena (Zeiss Model I)
....2) A New Marvel (Zeiss Model II)
B. Portraying the Planets
C. Limitations of the Zeiss
D. Notes

Chapter 3: American Planetaria Before Spitz
A. Pre-Twentieth-Century Instruments (Orreries, Atwood Globe)
B. Twentieth Century Instruments
....1) Korkoz Planetaria
....2) Peerless System
....3) Morrison Planetarium
F. Notes

Chapter 4: Armand Spitz--Seller of Stars

Chapter 5: The Model A--25 Pounds of Planetarium Power
A. Origins and Prototypes
B. Model A
C. Accessories
D. Notes

Chapter 6: Other Spitz Planetaria
A. Model A1
B. Model B
C. Spitz Jr.
D. Notes

Chapter 7: University of Florida Benton Hall Planetarium
A. John Benton and Benton Hall
B. Beneath Benton's Skies
C. Restoring the Model A
D. Notes

Conclusion

Appendix A: Survey Letters and Search Questionaire

Appendix B: Work Done to the UF Model A Planetarium

Bibliography (very extensive!)

Biographical Sketch
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mrgare5050
post May 12 2007, 05:59 AM
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QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 11 2007, 05:48 PM) *
Interesting, you can't find him to buy a copy, but he doesn't want copies made. Perhaps you can invite him over to the forum where he can have a different web identity and talk with us.



I will do that, I sent him an issue yesterday plus owens money, he apparently isnt online as much as we are (i have my computer in the backroom of an old farmhouse, and we live in the back attached sunroom, so with the advent of cable modum im on 24 hours a day basically), but alot of people arent. alot of people arent on at all, and those are the resources I have always been trying to keep in the loop, and its hard. legends (in our obscure branch) like James Kaler, Dave Debruyn, they're home planetarium exploits are in the increasingly dim past, they bascially cant find stuff they wrote back in the 40-50s. Anyway Brent A is a historian, he doesnt necessarily build planetariums or collect them, but he's the type of wonderful resource that, since we have no restrictions basically, we can engage any way possible - i'll write more on this in the HPA topic I see ron has created (my heartfelt thanks!) - there are people out there like Brent from so many related areas that would be great to talk to, thats always been one of my passions. Here we have the textbook example!

oops i have to work today, I hate it when that happens! gare
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Ron Walker
post May 12 2007, 09:44 AM
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QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 12 2007, 04:59 AM) *
I will do that, I sent him an issue yesterday plus owens money, he apparently isnt online as much as we are (i have my computer in the backroom of an old farmhouse, and we live in the back attached sunroom, so with the advent of cable modum im on 24 hours a day basically), but alot of people arent. alot of people arent on at all, and those are the resources I have always been trying to keep in the loop, and its hard. legends (in our obscure branch) like James Kaler, Dave Debruyn, they're home planetarium exploits are in the increasingly dim past, they bascially cant find stuff they wrote back in the 40-50s. Anyway Brent A is a historian, he doesnt necessarily build planetariums or collect them, but he's the type of wonderful resource that, since we have no restrictions basically, we can engage any way possible - i'll write more on this in the HPA topic I see ron has created (my heartfelt thanks!) - there are people out there like Brent from so many related areas that would be great to talk to, thats always been one of my passions. Here we have the textbook example!

oops i have to work today, I hate it when that happens! gare


I agree. Even if he doesn't build them, he evidently has a soft spot in his heart for planetariums. I'm also sure this is the perfect type of introduction to those surely out there that could become converts with just a little bit of a nudge. (IMG:http://www.observatorycentral.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Even though I build them (or try to anyway), I really enjoy reading any and all information I can find about them.
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mrgare5050
post May 13 2007, 04:41 PM
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QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 12 2007, 03:44 PM) *
I agree. Even if he doesn't build them, he evidently has a soft spot in his heart for planetariums. I'm also sure this is the perfect type of introduction to those surely out there that could become converts with just a little bit of a nudge. (IMG:http://www.observatorycentral.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Even though I build them (or try to anyway), I really enjoy reading any and all information I can find about them.



well plus, i just read this quote and now i cant think who said it, but they said, in any field, its our job today to be 'good ancestors' .. to gather up what info is available today so that those who follow will be able to see it. many of the things that need preserving are NOT gathered in one spot in this unique field - the published books even will slip out of print and into obscurity, but the stories, the things we write. they will be lost if we do not preserve them!

g
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Owen Phairis
post May 13 2007, 05:37 PM
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QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 13 2007, 03:41 PM) *
well plus, i just read this quote and now i cant think who said it, but they said, in any field, its our job today to be 'good ancestors' .. to gather up what info is available today so that those who follow will be able to see it. many of the things that need preserving are NOT gathered in one spot in this unique field - the published books even will slip out of print and into obscurity, but the stories, the things we write. they will be lost if we do not preserve them!

g


I could not agree more!
The reason for my projector collection is to establish a Planetarium Museum.
I also have a collection of auxillary projectors and a Coperican heliocentric
projection orrery for the museum.
That is also why I also have the telescopes and meteorites.
Any word on the thesis?

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com
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Ron Walker
post May 13 2007, 06:16 PM
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QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ May 13 2007, 04:37 PM) *
I could not agree more!
The reason for my projector collection is to establish a Planetarium Museum.
I also have a collection of auxillary projectors and a Coperican heliocentric
projection orrery for the museum.
That is also why I also have the telescopes and meteorites.
Any word on the thesis?

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com


I've got to do a trip through California and visit all of you fine folks over there. Owen, your museum sounds like a place I could spend some time in.
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mrgare5050
post May 14 2007, 04:08 AM
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QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ May 13 2007, 11:37 PM) *
I could not agree more!
The reason for my projector collection is to establish a Planetarium Museum.
I also have a collection of auxillary projectors and a Coperican heliocentric
projection orrery for the museum.
That is also why I also have the telescopes and meteorites.
Any word on the thesis?

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com


Brent was sent your money on Friday, so hopefully he will get a copy out to you this week, I also asked him about online availability, plus .. does he still have copies of that bibliography, all those exotic articles from the 40's and 50's

A planetarium museum is one of those things that hit you like ... would this be the first, at least in america? we remember the basement of Adler but i dont think it had projectors .. mr pielock certainly has a collection - i'm somewhat torn here though, between a desire for old projectors to be seen, and for old projectors to be USED and seen! Owen are you restoring them too? That is i think the great charm for engineers like Ron and Ken, and of course my bane .. it looks like though yours will be an eclectic collection of oddities, which is even cooler

Reading thru HPA old issues I found a good example of the 'ancestor' quote - in one of my shows in the 90s, on the floor of this little homemade planetarium was a girl, and she was clutching an astronomy book . she giggled along with her cohorts, they were early teens .. but this girl told me matter of factly she planned on being head of NASA one day ..

Now she was on her path already.. they say a hard road leads to the stars, but if I gave her any kind of memory - the way Owens museum will - the way Ron and Ken's and my new theater will - thats being a good ancestor. g
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Owen Phairis
post May 14 2007, 08:35 AM
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Thanks Gary,

Yes, I agree, that bibliography would be of great interest, it would save someone a lot of work recreating and duplicating his work....

Yes, Steve has a great collection, I will need to get in touch with him for parts for some of the restoration work that needs to be done. He has been very helpful in the past.

Zeiss has a great projector museum in Jena... we will see how mine develops.

I also agree that the projectors should be used as well as seen, for me at least, much of the 'romance' of the planetarium is being lost with the advent of these new video projection systems.

Education, as with my lightning shows, is important but NOT ALL important. It is my opinion that most educational aspects of the current planetarium shows will be quickly forgotten but the inspiration of a good planetarium (or lightning) show will last a lifetime. It is also my understanding that planetarium attendance worldwide is at a new all time low, competeing with 200 million dollar movies at the local theater is a tough nut to crack... guess I should get off my soap box....

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com



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mrgare5050
post May 14 2007, 11:14 AM
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Education, as with my lightning shows, is important but NOT ALL important. It is my opinion that most educational aspects of the current planetarium shows will be quickly forgotten but the inspiration of a good planetarium (or lightning) show will last a lifetime.

we're so alike its frightening .. you think i can remember what those childhood adler trips were about? heck no! i remember the MACHINE BABY ! the horizon profile .. wheres the prudential building?? (the highest building in the 60s, ha ha) .. the GASP ..

i couldnt even see the constellations, my young brain was overloading! THATS IT! gare
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Ken Miller
post May 14 2007, 11:19 AM
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QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ May 14 2007, 07:35 AM) *
Thanks Gary,

I also agree that the projectors should be used as well as seen, for me at least, much of the 'romance' of the planetarium is being lost with the advent of these new video projection systems.

Education, as with my lightning shows, is important but NOT ALL important. It is my opinion that most educational aspects of the current planetarium shows will be quickly forgotten but the inspiration of a good planetarium (or lightning) show will last a lifetime. It is also my understanding that planetarium attendance worldwide is at a new all time low, competeing with 200 million dollar movies at the local theater is a tough nut to crack... guess I should get off my soap box....

Owen
Spitz A1, Spitz A3P, Nova III, GOTO S2
www.pictorialism.com

No need need to get off the soap box! I am in the audience cheering wildly! My loudest cheer was when you mentioned the romance being lost. Then you totally had me when you mentioned that the "inspiration" was more important than the education. I wonder how many there were, besides the small group of us present on this forum, that were inspired to do bigger and better things as a result of seeing some of those old planetariums with the mechanical beast that made the stars.
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Ron Walker
post May 14 2007, 12:53 PM
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QUOTE(Ken Miller @ May 14 2007, 10:19 AM) *
No need need to get off the soap box! I am in the audience cheering wildly! My loudest cheer was when you mentioned the romance being lost. Then you totally had me when you mentioned that the "inspiration" was more important than the education. I wonder how many there were, besides the small group of us present on this forum, that were inspired to do bigger and better things as a result of seeing some of those old planetariums with the mechanical beast that made the stars.


This is really quite scary. We are like "rubber stamps" of each other. That big mechanical beast was the planetarium, not the building. The gasps and awh that came from the audience when the beautiful night sky came out!

I've said it before, if you want to see a movie for entertainment sake, go to an IMAX. If you want an "experience", see a planetarium show! Perhaps some of the reason that the attendance is down is because the presentation has changed from a magical representation of the mysterious night sky to a spongebob squarepants romp through the galaxy.

This is kind of like the movie "Close Encounters of the Third Kind", a lot of us were exposed to the fantastic "inspiration" of the planetarium sky, but so few of us made the presentation connection.

Thank God I did! (IMG:http://www.observatorycentral.com/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Ron Walker
post Jun 3 2007, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 8 2007, 04:25 AM) *
Anyone interested in the history of the planetarium will try I suppose to collect old books on the subject - Steven LJ Russo has posted this on Dome - L - anyone else have a copy? Ive asked Mr Russo if he can provide any images for our archives. Any other old books on the subject? gare
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Recently at a Salvation Army thrift store, I purchased an interesting book;
"From the Aratus Globe to the Zeiss Planetarium". It was written by Helmut
Werner, and published in Germany in 1953. It is written in English. I
think I paid two dollars for it!

The book details the history of the planetarium, and specifically the Zeiss
Planetarium, complete with photos of the first planetariums, orrery's, how
the planet "cages" work on the Zeiss, etc. There is even a blue/red 3D
photo of an early Zeiss on wheels (Zeiss IV maybe) and the glasses are
included.

Photos of Clyde Fisher, the old Hayden in NY, the Buhl, and the Zeiss plants
in Germany are abundant.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I remember trying to send a correction to this quote from Dome-L to Dome-L and as usual my posts tend to get lost, so I'll post it here. (IMG:http://www.observatorycentral.com/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The 3D picture of the Zeiss in the back of the book was an early Zeiss II, not a Zeiss IV.
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mrgare5050
post Jun 20 2007, 04:08 AM
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Ron, you mentioned a big file of old articles on planetariums, are any of these on 'home built' planetariums, or are they all on commercial? I'd like to list on HPA website all home built articles known to be in captivity, my earliest is from Life magazine in the 40's but they might go earlier, I only have 3 or 4 tops. gare
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Ron Walker
post Jun 20 2007, 06:02 PM
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QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jun 20 2007, 03:08 AM) *
Ron, you mentioned a big file of old articles on planetariums, are any of these on 'home built' planetariums, or are they all on commercial? I'd like to list on HPA website all home built articles known to be in captivity, my earliest is from Life magazine in the 40's but they might go earlier, I only have 3 or 4 tops. gare


Big file is perhaps a bit of an exaggeration, but I do have a decent collection that is growing every day thanks to all of you out there. I do have a few on "home planetariums" and I will send them to you. Since there are pictures associated with the articles I an going to send rather large JPEG files that should print out at your end well. The first one is on its way to you now. Tell me if you can open it and if it prints out well.
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mrgare5050
post Jun 23 2007, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Jun 21 2007, 12:02 AM) *
Big file is perhaps a bit of an exaggeration, but I do have a decent collection that is growing every day thanks to all of you out there. I do have a few on "home planetariums" and I will send them to you. Since there are pictures associated with the articles I an going to send rather large JPEG files that should print out at your end well. The first one is on its way to you now. Tell me if you can open it and if it prints out well.



hey, ive been atlanta since wed, visited the fernbank natural history museum but was unable to get the family over to the science center to try to see ed albin, the director there and the guy who made those fantastic dodecs ken has -

please send to mrgare5050@hotmail.com not aim.com, aim is so slow now i caint open stuff anymore! i appreciate any homebuilt stuff ! any luck scanning any of the newsletters? gare
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Ron Walker
post Jun 24 2007, 01:23 PM
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QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jun 23 2007, 06:58 PM) *
hey, ive been atlanta since wed, visited the fernbank natural history museum but was unable to get the family over to the science center to try to see ed albin, the director there and the guy who made those fantastic dodecs ken has -

please send to mrgare5050@hotmail.com not aim.com, aim is so slow now i caint open stuff anymore! i appreciate any homebuilt stuff ! any luck scanning any of the newsletters? gare


Actually, I have all 16 issues of the newsletter scanned as PDF files so they should open on any type of computer with Adobe Acrobat which is a free download. I was waiting for a clean copy of issue 17 so I could add it on before I burned the master disc.

My family knows that if we go near a planetarium, we go in a planetarium. It's just the way it is! (IMG:http://www.observatorycentral.com/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

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