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Observatory Central > Planetarium Forum > Planetariums as a hobby > Planetarium Presentations ~ programs, education, music, and effects
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Ron Walker
There is an old English proverb that goes something like:

"A joy shared is a joy doubled"

I must admit that I wish I had come up with this quote myself for I find it to be the basis of all the things that I do and enjoy. There is, of course, a certain magic being alone, one with the stars above. It makes no matter if they're real or generated by machine. They are magic, and the magic doubles when we share. I imagine that each of us, no mater what we do, feels the same way. A chef for instance, not only enjoys the art of cooking (as well as partaking in the results of that art [ah, I wish I didn't enjoy partaking of that particular art so much]) but also truly enjoys others enjoyment when they partake in the fruits of his labors.

We enjoy dots of light. Dots that represent just part, the parts we can see, of this infinite, mind numbing, universe we live in. And that part might not even exist any longer, for we see light that was generated millennia ago.

I have shared this wonder with my family and enjoyed it again just watching their faces, answering their questions, and getting them thinking.

Building planetariums and observatories is just one side of this strange obsession. Problems and solutions come from trial and error and finding good folks on forums such as this to help us on our way. The flip side of this "coin" is the sharing. But how? Enthusiasm takes us so far. What really works and what needs to be taught is part of the responsibility of sharing this love we have for the night sky.

If anyone had told me a week ago that this forum would be here and that I would be administrating a forum on home planetariums, I would have thought them "nuts". But strange things happen to strange people and no one is stranger then I am. What was impossible just a few days ago is now history. What more could happen in this insane week.

Dr. Sanchez has joined us. There are those out there that would say having a gentlemen of his caliber with us "legitimizes" out efforts. That and that alone will hopefully encourage others to join us. I offer a very large "xosmos" welcome and hope that we will be worth his time.

Dr. Sanchez, welcome to out little forum and thank you for coming. I would love to get your perspective on what works and what doesn't when teaching groups of all ages about the magic that is our universe.
Launch Vehicle
Someone once opined that what our sport really needs is a bunch of proselyting blokes with fire in their bellies. Most amateur astronomers I know would never fit this profile. But Me?----My "inner-fire" often ignites when I forget to take my Prilosec.
mrgare5050

Heres an interesting thread thats a year old but just came up elsewhere.

education vs entertainment vs WOW

i hereby name this .. umm. the EEW ratio.. Likert Scale is already taken . but we can invent our own terms.. 'dome pergatory' i lay claim to .. ron lays claims to 'good junk' ... we are inventing the art and science of Home Planetariums, or defining and collecting it are we not? we are the founding fathers - (well Pat Dobbins is a founding mother) .. there arent that many of us .. we have but a few 'good ancestors'.. so i'll claim this ratio.. wait .. the WEE ratio!

the WEE ratio... WOW vs education vs entertainment ..

Lets give it 100 percent .. i believe when planetariums started it was something like 10/80/10

I believe today the WEE ratio is about 25/25/50

what say you? what will the WEE ratio be in YOUR place ? WEE gare
Ron Walker
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 16 2007, 04:34 AM) *
Heres an interesting thread thats a year old but just came up elsewhere.

education vs entertainment vs WOW

i hereby name this .. umm. the EEW ratio.. Likert Scale is already taken . but we can invent our own terms.. 'dome pergatory' i lay claim to .. ron lays claims to 'good junk' ... we are inventing the art and science of Home Planetariums, or defining and collecting it are we not? we are the founding fathers - (well Pat Dobbins is a founding mother) .. there arent that many of us .. we have but a few 'good ancestors'.. so i'll claim this ratio.. wait .. the WEE ratio!

the WEE ratio... WOW vs education vs entertainment ..

Lets give it 100 percent .. i believe when planetariums started it was something like 10/80/10

I believe today the WEE ratio is about 25/25/50

what say you? what will the WEE ratio be in YOUR place ? WEE gare


We need be careful here as this could become:

Wild Enthusiastic Expression = WOW vs Education vs Entertainment.

That would be the Wee-Wee factor. rolleyes.gif

But all seriousness aside, I'm glad this thread has been resurrected. I think that I would like my ratio to be something like 20/50/30, but knowing how little I really know about the subject I will probably be more like 20/20/60. The old adage "baffle them with BS" comes to mind, not that I want to but, with the little I really know, I will just brush the edges of the subject and hope the viewers be excited enough to continue researching this fantastic science. I would love to increase the W factor but am not sure that my meager attempts will hold a candle to the likes or Chronos and Zeiss. Now, I suppose you can mark this on a curve and factor in what the audience has ever seen before and then, perhaps, we can skew the numbers to more like 30/20/30 which would make me feel better at least. As I said somewhere before, getting some of those "gasps" from people would sure make me feel good and, I believe, make my presentations all the better.

Since were talking a bit about the education factor, what subjects would any of you like or expect from a planetarium experience?
Strgzr
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ May 16 2007, 12:40 PM) *
We need be careful here as this could become:

Wild Enthusiastic Expression = WOW vs Education vs Entertainment.

That would be the Wee-Wee factor. rolleyes.gif

But all seriousness aside, I'm glad this thread has been resurrected. I think that I would like my ratio to be something like 20/50/30, but knowing how little I really know about the subject I will probably be more like 20/20/60. The old adage "baffle them with BS" comes to mind, not that I want to but, with the little I really know, I will just brush the edges of the subject and hope the viewers be excited enough to continue researching this fantastic science. I would love to increase the W factor but am not sure that my meager attempts will hold a candle to the likes or Chronos and Zeiss. Now, I suppose you can mark this on a curve and factor in what the audience has ever seen before and then, perhaps, we can skew the numbers to more like 30/20/30 which would make me feel better at least. As I said somewhere before, getting some of those "gasps" from people would sure make me feel good and, I believe, make my presentations all the better.

Since were talking a bit about the education factor, what subjects would any of you like or expect from a planetarium experience?

Hey where did that extra 20 go! laugh.gif
But seriously, There are plenty of Folks like me that have never seen one of these machines work. So I believe you will get the effect you want Ron!
mrgare5050
[quote name='Ron Walker' date='May 16 2007, 07:40 PM' post='14951']
We need be careful here as this could become:

Wild Enthusiastic Expression = WOW vs Education vs Entertainment.

That would be the Wee-Wee factor. rolleyes.gif

there are NO facilities in my theater ron, you have to go out back where there is 4 acres of woods!

actually it DOES vary by institution, each will have their own approach.. im thinking of adding a H .. make it the WHEE factor, that sounds more like coming down a slide! the H would be the health factor - how healthy is your institution

i found for 99 cents a small kids book at the goodwill store that astounded me - it was 'what is a star' - THATS my biggest show - part of my spiritual belief is that stars are one face of god, giving all life and heat . gods in the hydrogen.. just a little theology not much .. but the tiny book covers star evolution colors brightness

7 and 8 are out. g
Ron Walker
QUOTE(Strgzr @ May 16 2007, 01:18 PM) *
Hey where did that extra 20 go! laugh.gif
But seriously, There are plenty of Folks like me that have never seen one of these machines work. So I believe you will get the effect you want Ron!


Actually that missing 20% is stuff I forgot to talk about or didn't because I wasn't really sure I knew what I was talking about and my ego couldn't handle being called on it by some "snot nosed" kid who thought he knew more then I did (and probably did) tongue.gif laugh.gif smile.gif and I have some land in Florida that I can get you a great deal on....OK, OK, I just didn't add it up right. Gee whiz, I was just checking to see if you guys actually read my posts...

The correct numbers should be:45/22/33. Actually, I'm looking for a large WOW as that does me as much good as them, and if I can keep up the big WOW factor they might not notice my ignorance on the subject matter at hand. huh.gif
mrgare5050
i still have yet to write that WHEE article ..

anyway as i write my own show - if you build your own stuff, you HAVE to write your own material, this is homemade all the way! i find i know next to nothing about astronomy ! help me out PLEASE anyone .. i want to talk about basic star types .. i found an old book in the barn ... it speaks of

red dwarfs
yellow mainstream
blue giants


are these the main classifications? i always thought it was white dwarfs and red giants ....

i thought glowing colored star models would be cool to illustrate the types of stars (and sizes, colors etc)

what would be most accurate? perhaps some of the other board astronomers can jump in.

gare doesn't really 'know' astronomy!
Ron Walker
It's interesting how you come up with an idea and then find it has been touched upon before.

I was thinking to myself just how technical a show should become. I'm not all that knowledgeable but I know the difference between a main sequence star and a red giant but I'm beginning to wonder if I'm going overboard. Perhaps it should be just fun and just touch on things.

What have you guys done and how technical do you get? Is it better to just keep it light???
mrgare5050
i havent done ANYTHING yet since that post, i've wanted to at least have different size/colored balls to represent star types. star colors always fascinated me, and my bright stars for some reason seem to have a reddish tint, must be the copper. g
chemed
Here's the simple version:

There are red dwarfs and red giants, as there are white dwarfs and blue/white giants. "yellow" stars are considered right in the middle, masswise.

Most stars are classified according to their position on the main sequence of the H-R (Hertzprung-Russell) Diagram.
http://www.math.lsa.umich.edu/mmss/courses....2/HR.htm14.gif
Blue giants are massive, main sequence stars, that are undergoing hydrogen fusion at a faster rate than any other main sequence star. For this reason, they are relatively short lived/high temperature stars, hence the blue/white color.
Likewise, yellow stars are also main sequence stars that are hydrogen fusing stars.
A red giant star is not a main sequence star. It is a star that is in the twilight of its years, that is, it is a star that is no longer fusing hydrogen in its core. So, gravitational contraction causes the temperature in its helium core to rise to at least 100 million Kelvin (This is where we get carbon, by the way). There is still hydrogen fusing in a shell around the core which causes the star to expand. This expansion cools the star, therefore, the surface temperature goes down, and we perceive this decrease in temperature as a red color. Red giants have the same mass as a main sequence star, but occupy a much larger volume, so they are less dense as well.
A white dwarf is the core of a star of mass similar to our sun after it has thrown off its hydrogen envelope into space (Post red giant phase). This creates what is called a planetary nebula. The core of the star at this point is mostly carbon, and it has a high density. As long as the core is not part of a binary system, it will no longer undergo fusion and will cool to a red/brown dwarf. Eventually, the core will cool enough to no longer emit EM radiation at visible wavelengths, becoming what is called a "dead black dwarf"

When our Sun's core runs out of hydrogen in the core for fusion in about 4.5 billion years, it will expand to a red giant. Our Earth's orbit will, at that point, be inside the sun.

The apparent scale of this change will be roughly equivalent to a marble to a large beach ball.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6307/78...00/Planets4.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6307/78...00/Planets5.jpg

let me know if you have any more questions.

-atm
Owen Phairis
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Sep 27 2007, 04:39 AM) *
i still have yet to write that WHEE article ..

anyway as i write my own show - if you build your own stuff, you HAVE to write your own material, this is homemade all the way! i find i know next to nothing about astronomy ! help me out PLEASE anyone .. i want to talk about basic star types .. i found an old book in the barn ... it speaks of

red dwarfs
yellow mainstream
blue giants


are these the main classifications? i always thought it was white dwarfs and red giants ....

i thought glowing colored star models would be cool to illustrate the types of stars (and sizes, colors etc)

what would be most accurate? perhaps some of the other board astronomers can jump in.

gare doesn't really 'know' astronomy!



I have an interesting auxillary planetarium projector that came from Holt Planetarium that goes through the evolution of a star. It was made by Talent in Sparks, Nevada during one the haydays of planetariums and planetarium projectors maybe during the 1970s. The motor that drives the color wheel also drives a zoom control on the projector so that the star changes sizes as well as color as it goes through its life cycle. Thought you might enjoy seeing it...

Owen
Planetarium Projector Museum
www.pictorialism.com


Click to view attachment
Ron Walker
I like that projector a lot. I can see that when I finish my main projector (if I ever finish) I will have to build some of these smaller units. I guess our work is never done.

How many more of these gems do you have?
Owen Phairis
QUOTE(Ron Walker @ Mar 18 2008, 10:19 AM) *
I like that projector a lot. I can see that when I finish my main projector (if I ever finish) I will have to build some of these smaller units. I guess our work is never done.

How many more of these gems do you have?


Not many, but here is another one I received from Holt Planetarium that I like alot. It is a solar eclipse projector. The second projector projects the sun and has a motor drive to slowly place the moon in front of the sun, and then the first projector projects the suns corona. All under push button and rheostat control.... I think its neat. I believe this one was made by Walker Instruments who produced a lot of planetarium auxillary projectors.

Owen
www.pictorialism.com

Click to view attachment
Ron Walker
QUOTE(Owen Phairis @ Mar 18 2008, 10:29 AM) *
Not many, but here is another one I received from Holt Planetarium that I like alot. It is a solar eclipse projector. The second projector projects the sun and has a motor drive to slowly place the moon in front of the sun, and then the first projector projects the suns corona. All under push button and rheostat control.... I think its neat. I believe this one was made by Walker Instruments who produced a lot of planetarium auxillary projectors.

Owen
www.pictorialism.com

Click to view attachment


Yes, we have, aah....I mean....no not me, unfortunately.

Nice unit. That is definitely one of the things that needs to be reproduced in the planetarium.
chemed
I want those.

I have a "sort of eclipse" projector. Its basically a large bright disk that gets overtaken when a motor driven opaque disk moves in front of it. When coverage is complete, I project a slide image of a total eclipse on that spot (via a separate switch). They are the same size on the dome, so, it "works"

har har har!

-atm
mrgare5050
Ever have a 'eureka' moment, when a subject thats fascinated you all your life suddenly reveals how little you actually know about it?

I was just reading a dollar store book on the PLANETS when I read .. solar system .. that venus rotates backwards? to the west and not the east? Knowing NOTHING else about the planets, one could show how they rotate. Uranus is the one sideways right?

Programs are back very much on my mind, sooner or later even given my PR lethargy, sooner or later the phone is going to ring (maybe) and I'll have to talk to some kids. g
Ron Walker
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 25 2008, 04:24 AM) *
Ever have a 'eureka' moment, when a subject thats fascinated you all your life suddenly reveals how little you actually know about it?

I was just reading a dollar store book on the PLANETS when I read .. solar system .. that venus rotates backwards? to the west and not the east? Knowing NOTHING else about the planets, one could show how they rotate. Uranus is the one sideways right?

Programs are back very much on my mind, sooner or later even given my PR lethargy, sooner or later the phone is going to ring (maybe) and I'll have to talk to some kids. g


I call it a "TERROR" moment! tongue.gif I could probably get through any program as long as nobody asked any questions. My understanding of all this is not very deep as well.

We must go forth however and "do" otherwise what's it all for?
mrgare5050
DO is what i DONT so far. I tried emailing the Scout leader for Gallatin but it came back, and there i let it lay. I NEED something on the planets though. Ive been tempted over the years to buy models of space probes, the hubble etc, except that sort of thing seems to have a short shelf life nowadays, the whole space program. my son did an english project on the turbulent 60s, and it was mostly viet nam viet nam, with a little woodstock thrown in. he asked me what moved me most in the 60s, and im like, the space program, why do you think i schlepped you down to the space center last summer! but planets. kids like planets.... g
Ron Walker
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ May 26 2008, 03:59 AM) *
DO is what i DONT so far. I tried emailing the Scout leader for Gallatin but it came back, and there i let it lay. I NEED something on the planets though. Ive been tempted over the years to buy models of space probes, the hubble etc, except that sort of thing seems to have a short shelf life nowadays, the whole space program. my son did an english project on the turbulent 60s, and it was mostly viet nam viet nam, with a little woodstock thrown in. he asked me what moved me most in the 60s, and im like, the space program, why do you think i schlepped you down to the space center last summer! but planets. kids like planets.... g


Any good book on astronomy will give you all the info you could possibly need for your talk. The problem comes for me when I plan what to put on the dome when I do the talk. The simplest thing would be to have slides of the various planets that could be faded up when the time came. In this day and age this would probably not be enough. This is one of the reasons I like the idea of adding a mirror all dome projector. One could start with just a small video projector or possibly even a small TV with a lens in the front of it. The image would not have to be very bright as we don't want the audience to lose their dark adaption.

I found a great program called "Seeker" by bisque.com the same people that make "The Sky" software. It contains actual pictures as well as great artwork of the various planets and allow you to move about them in real time. You can even make a trip and save it as a quick time movie for playback during a show. Talking about a planet with a beautiful image to look at and even with its moons moving about add a bit of that special effect that would be very effective at a presentation.

What I find is the apparent lack of interest in what I plan to offer. I am to the point where I could go out with my portable system and have been "feeling things out" and the interest is tepid at best. You can bring the water to them but you still can't make them drink. You can't even get them to give you a place to put the bucket.

It won't stop me, but it sure tends to slow me down a bit. dry.gif
mrgare5050
Here is Astronomy Magazines TOP TEN ASTRONOMICAL DISCOVERIES of the last 35 years. I know most of us here are all about history and classcial stuff, but I always have this nagging feeling myself that I am lagging behind in whats gone on in the past decades! So as a reference if you dont pick up the magazine, here they are

10. It was discovered that the Milky Way is in fact a barred spiral, the bar is 27 million light years long and is at a 45 degree angle to a line from our sun to the center, we are NOT a typical spiral galaxy! How did they do it? Infrared with the Spitzer.

9. Discovery of the Great Attractor, the whole Virgo Supercluster of galaxy (of which our local group is a small outlying part) is steaming towards a spot in the constellation Norma, which apparently marks the location of a massive supercluster of galaxies.

8. Supernova 1987A in the Large Magellanic cloud was the closest since the telescope was invented, and we actually captured a few dozen neutrinos from it - neutrinos carry away far more energy than light - this explosion is now a beautiful 'diamond ring' of glowing gas. They still dont know the exact mechanics though

7. The Milky Way apparently gobbles up smaller galaxies, and some globular clusters may actually be old nuclei of gobbled up dwarves - the most notable new discovery of a gobbled galaxy is a dwarf in Saggitarius - the Milky Way is hungry!

6. They finally linked gamma ray bursts to distant celestial objects after a satellite detected a massic one in 97 ... these last milliseconds to a few minutes at best ... they DONT line up with the Milky Way, they come from WAYYY out there, making them the brightest objects.. causes vary, the short ones from neutron stars, the largest from supernova

5. They found black holes (term coined by Wheeler in 67) .. first from xray bursts of visible/invisible star binary systems .. the invisible component was too massive for a star .. then Hubble found a bunch of these systems that were revolving too fast .. the blue shift/red shifts at the core of M84 for example are WAYYY too whacked out

4. the big bang appeared too perfect - no fluctuations in the background hiss .. flat geometry .. somehow Guth at MIT developed a model that allowed a tiny period after the big bang where all matter was in contact, then the same probe that had dated the big bang at 13.7 million years ago confirmed 'inflation'... I have no idea what they are talking about on this one!

3. the voyagers, this is probably the most well known .. they revolutionized the view of our solar system and they are still alive 8 billion miles out

2. Planets! and not fitting the models of our solar system - jupiter like planets much closer to the star ... 51 Pegasi was the first found around a sunlike star, but it orbited it in 5 days .. 300 are now known.. but then search techniques still favor gas giants - they have found a few smaller than neptune so far but they are still massive.. no earth sizers

1. Dark Energy ... apparently it was detected. this is also difficult. type Ia supernovas were observed by the Hubble.. they all arise from identical conditions, red giant/white dwarf binaries and their peak luminosities match ... allowing you to determine the distance... but the furtherest from us are fainger than their distances imply... some force has to be accelerating the universe's expansion for this to make sense... they now put it at 72 percent of the universes contents... this is dark ENERGY .. dark MATTER is estimated at 23 percent... leaving 5 percent for the stuff WE see ... this means eventually we wont be able to see ANYTHING but our own galaxy ....


i have a headache! gare
Ron Walker
Wow, that IS deep stuff. huh.gif

I think I'll stick to the simple stuff like constilation folklore and what's up in the sky this month. The heavy duty stuff can be saved for the classroom.
Owen Phairis
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jul 21 2008, 05:45 AM) *
Here is Astronomy Magazines TOP TEN ASTRONOMICAL DISCOVERIES of the last 35 years. I know most of us here are all about history and classcial stuff, but I always have this nagging feeling myself that I am lagging behind in whats gone on in the past decades! So as a reference if you dont pick up the magazine, here they are

10. It was discovered that the Milky Way is in fact a barred spiral, the bar is 27 million light years long and is at a 45 degree angle to a line from our sun to the center, we are NOT a typical spiral galaxy! How did they do it? Infrared with the Spitzer.

9. Discovery of the Great Attractor, the whole Virgo Supercluster of galaxy (of which our local group is a small outlying part) is steaming towards a spot in the constellation Norma, which apparently marks the location of a massive supercluster of galaxies.

8. Supernova 1987A in the Large Magellanic cloud was the closest since the telescope was invented, and we actually captured a few dozen neutrinos from it - neutrinos carry away far more energy than light - this explosion is now a beautiful 'diamond ring' of glowing gas. They still dont know the exact mechanics though

7. The Milky Way apparently gobbles up smaller galaxies, and some globular clusters may actually be old nuclei of gobbled up dwarves - the most notable new discovery of a gobbled galaxy is a dwarf in Saggitarius - the Milky Way is hungry!

6. They finally linked gamma ray bursts to distant celestial objects after a satellite detected a massic one in 97 ... these last milliseconds to a few minutes at best ... they DONT line up with the Milky Way, they come from WAYYY out there, making them the brightest objects.. causes vary, the short ones from neutron stars, the largest from supernova

5. They found black holes (term coined by Wheeler in 67) .. first from xray bursts of visible/invisible star binary systems .. the invisible component was too massive for a star .. then Hubble found a bunch of these systems that were revolving too fast .. the blue shift/red shifts at the core of M84 for example are WAYYY too whacked out

4. the big bang appeared too perfect - no fluctuations in the background hiss .. flat geometry .. somehow Guth at MIT developed a model that allowed a tiny period after the big bang where all matter was in contact, then the same probe that had dated the big bang at 13.7 million years ago confirmed 'inflation'... I have no idea what they are talking about on this one!

3. the voyagers, this is probably the most well known .. they revolutionized the view of our solar system and they are still alive 8 billion miles out

2. Planets! and not fitting the models of our solar system - jupiter like planets much closer to the star ... 51 Pegasi was the first found around a sunlike star, but it orbited it in 5 days .. 300 are now known.. but then search techniques still favor gas giants - they have found a few smaller than neptune so far but they are still massive.. no earth sizers

1. Dark Energy ... apparently it was detected. this is also difficult. type Ia supernovas were observed by the Hubble.. they all arise from identical conditions, red giant/white dwarf binaries and their peak luminosities match ... allowing you to determine the distance... but the furtherest from us are fainger than their distances imply... some force has to be accelerating the universe's expansion for this to make sense... they now put it at 72 percent of the universes contents... this is dark ENERGY .. dark MATTER is estimated at 23 percent... leaving 5 percent for the stuff WE see ... this means eventually we wont be able to see ANYTHING but our own galaxy ....


i have a headache! gare


Interesting, I would have thought that finding out that the Universe is still expanding and at an ever-increasing rate would have made it to the list..... Hummm............

Owen
Planetarium Projector Museum
www.pictorialism.com
mrgare5050
I think the Dark Force stuff is examining aspects of the expansion of the universe, but its an interesting reversal of Oblers Paradox, which I dimly remember saying that as light sources are everywhere in the sky, why isnt the sky a blinding sheet of light. Now they are saying, the sky will go dark completely as things recede.

Im with you Owen and Ron on being more into legends and constellations, the human element, of it all. I do like to keep a summary of current things at hand in case some kids ask, and this was a good summary. Plus it gives ideas for projectors .. galaxy groups etc .. Personally I dont know a gamma ray from a neutrino (didnt I drive a neutrino back in 79? wait that was a Torino) . There is another summary I want to do, thats SCOPES .. I lost track after the 200 inch... gare sagan
mrgare5050
OMG I'm the only one here... that means I get to post OC Planetariums

5000th post!

I'll do it here in education, to remind us that as much as we look back, we must (sigh) also look forward. gare
Owen Phairis
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jul 22 2008, 04:33 AM) *
I think the Dark Force stuff is examining aspects of the expansion of the universe, but its an interesting reversal of Oblers Paradox, which I dimly remember saying that as light sources are everywhere in the sky, why isnt the sky a blinding sheet of light. Now they are saying, the sky will go dark completely as things recede.

Im with you Owen and Ron on being more into legends and constellations, the human element, of it all. I do like to keep a summary of current things at hand in case some kids ask, and this was a good summary. Plus it gives ideas for projectors .. galaxy groups etc .. Personally I dont know a gamma ray from a neutrino (didnt I drive a neutrino back in 79? wait that was a Torino) . There is another summary I want to do, thats SCOPES .. I lost track after the 200 inch... gare sagan



Hmm... I do not remember saying I was more into the legends and constellations? Actually, I'm much more into gamma rays, neutrinos and string theory than I am into the old make believe stories. They may indeed make for a more interesting and entertaining planetarium show, but, in my opinion, they are of very limited educational value.......

Owen
Planetarium Projector Museum
www.pictorialism.com
mrgare5050
Oh sorry Owen. Indeed it points out the rich palette from which a program can be painted I think. From storytelling to leading edge particle physics to cosmological theory to practical astronomy to navigational astronomy to the space program to .. it never ends! gare
mrgare5050
another quick reference from Astronomy mag is the march of the scopes - if you are like me, you were/are all about lick, wilson, palomar .. but if some kid asked me today, whats the biggest scope?? i would go ummmmm

heres a guide

WORLDS BIGGEST

Hubble 2.4M 1990 (1 mirror)
Keck 10M (made up of over 30 smaller mirrors) 1992
Gemini North 8.1m 1999 (1 mirror)

PLANNED

Pan-STARRS - 4 separate 3.6m scopes acting together 2012
James Webb Space Telescope (replaces Hubble) 6.5M about 16 separate mirrors 2013
Large Synoptic Survey Telescope 8.4M 2014
Giant Magellan Telescope 24.5M 8.4m mirrors 2016
Thirty Meter Telescope - 492 small mirrors 2016

The coming megascopes remind me of our own beloved planetarium instruments - they begin to take on fantastic shape and hue, just like our stuff! gare




mrgare5050
Im plugging in here useful tidbits as i run across them - 8 months since the last tidbit .. heres something interesting to point out in a planetarium from this months Astronomy mag pg 25

Pioneer 10 launched March 72 and was thrown out of the solar system by Jupiter in Dec 72. It is currently 96 au from the sun, going 2.5 au per year. It is headed towards Aldebaran, which it should reach in about 2 million years

Pioneer 11 launched April 73, Jupiter bounced it toward Saturn in Dec 74, and Saturn threw it out of the solar system in Sept 79. It is current 75 au from the sun, going 2.4 au per year. It is headed into Aquila (lambda) in about 4 million years.

Both probes, while they could still be heard however, were short of where they should have been - 36K miles for 10 and 3.7K miles for 11 .. something was slowing them down at the same rate over the same period of time


this anomoly cannot be tested with the voyagers, as they jet gas periodically to stabililze.

good facts to amaze! g
mrgare5050
There are red dwarfs and red giants, as there are white dwarfs and blue/white giants. "yellow" stars are considered right in the middle, masswise.

Most stars are classified according to their position on the main sequence of the H-R (Hertzprung-Russell) Diagram.
http://www.math.lsa.umich.edu/mmss/courses....2/HR.htm14.gif
Blue giants are massive, main sequence stars, that are undergoing hydrogen fusion at a faster rate than any other main sequence star. For this reason, they are relatively short lived/high temperature stars, hence the blue/white color.
Likewise, yellow stars are also main sequence stars that are hydrogen fusing stars.
A red giant star is not a main sequence star. It is a star that is in the twilight of its years, that is, it is a star that is no longer fusing hydrogen in its core. So, gravitational contraction causes the temperature in its helium core to rise to at least 100 million Kelvin (This is where we get carbon, by the way). There is still hydrogen fusing in a shell around the core which causes the star to expand. This expansion cools the star, therefore, the surface temperature goes down, and we perceive this decrease in temperature as a red color. Red giants have the same mass as a main sequence star, but occupy a much larger volume, so they are less dense as well.
A white dwarf is the core of a star of mass similar to our sun after it has thrown off its hydrogen envelope into space (Post red giant phase). This creates what is called a planetary nebula. The core of the star at this point is mostly carbon, and it has a high density. As long as the core is not part of a binary system, it will no longer undergo fusion and will cool to a red/brown dwarf. Eventually, the core will cool enough to no longer emit EM radiation at visible wavelengths, becoming what is called a "dead black dwarf"

When our Sun's core runs out of hydrogen in the core for fusion in about 4.5 billion years, it will expand to a red giant. Our Earth's orbit will, at that point, be inside the sun.

The apparent scale of this change will be roughly equivalent to a marble to a large beach ball.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6307/78...00/Planets4.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6307/78...00/Planets5.jpg
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Im FINALLY constructing an exhibit depicting star colors (and therefore types) - I have simmered this for years, thinking spray painted tennis balls and oranges etc etc, but have finally hit upon the idea of not only an exhibit in my almost done Visitors Center, but a homewritten show title (I still dont have one) called LAMPS . it will have a variety of lamps with different colored bulbs burning . I want to depict prototypical stars like

red: antares
yellow: sun, cappella
blue/white: rigel, vega
orange: ??
infrared ?? (black light bulb)
green: theres a green star somewhere, ???

To me its all about stars stars stars, we only know the nebula, galaxies .. planets.. asteroids ... comets ... we only know they exist BECAUSE of stars! Stars are it. Can anyone add to this? Chemed provided he excellent summary above - gare


Owen Phairis
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jul 8 2009, 04:50 AM) *
There are red dwarfs and red giants, as there are white dwarfs and blue/white giants. "yellow" stars are considered right in the middle, masswise.

Most stars are classified according to their position on the main sequence of the H-R (Hertzprung-Russell) Diagram.
http://www.math.lsa.umich.edu/mmss/courses....2/HR.htm14.gif
Blue giants are massive, main sequence stars, that are undergoing hydrogen fusion at a faster rate than any other main sequence star. For this reason, they are relatively short lived/high temperature stars, hence the blue/white color.
Likewise, yellow stars are also main sequence stars that are hydrogen fusing stars.
A red giant star is not a main sequence star. It is a star that is in the twilight of its years, that is, it is a star that is no longer fusing hydrogen in its core. So, gravitational contraction causes the temperature in its helium core to rise to at least 100 million Kelvin (This is where we get carbon, by the way). There is still hydrogen fusing in a shell around the core which causes the star to expand. This expansion cools the star, therefore, the surface temperature goes down, and we perceive this decrease in temperature as a red color. Red giants have the same mass as a main sequence star, but occupy a much larger volume, so they are less dense as well.
A white dwarf is the core of a star of mass similar to our sun after it has thrown off its hydrogen envelope into space (Post red giant phase). This creates what is called a planetary nebula. The core of the star at this point is mostly carbon, and it has a high density. As long as the core is not part of a binary system, it will no longer undergo fusion and will cool to a red/brown dwarf. Eventually, the core will cool enough to no longer emit EM radiation at visible wavelengths, becoming what is called a "dead black dwarf"

When our Sun's core runs out of hydrogen in the core for fusion in about 4.5 billion years, it will expand to a red giant. Our Earth's orbit will, at that point, be inside the sun.

The apparent scale of this change will be roughly equivalent to a marble to a large beach ball.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6307/78...00/Planets4.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6307/78...00/Planets5.jpg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Im FINALLY constructing an exhibit depicting star colors (and therefore types) - I have simmered this for years, thinking spray painted tennis balls and oranges etc etc, but have finally hit upon the idea of not only an exhibit in my almost done Visitors Center, but a homewritten show title (I still dont have one) called LAMPS . it will have a variety of lamps with different colored bulbs burning . I want to depict prototypical stars like

red: antares
yellow: sun, cappella
blue/white: rigel, vega
orange: ??
infrared ?? (black light bulb)
green: theres a green star somewhere, ???

To me its all about stars stars stars, we only know the nebula, galaxies .. planets.. asteroids ... comets ... we only know they exist BECAUSE of stars! Stars are it. Can anyone add to this? Chemed provided he excellent summary above - gare


Sir Gare,

What a GREAT idea!

Perhaps you could use one of those 100 million watt light bulbs for a super-nova? Or, better yet, how about a xenon strobe lamp for the super-nova? Of course, you would only want them to play with the exhibit after the planetarium show was over because of the damage to their eyes upon seeing the nova.....maybe you should consider skipping my ideas on the nova experience....

Owen -
Ron Walker
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jul 8 2009, 04:50 AM) *
There are red dwarfs and red giants, as there are white dwarfs and blue/white giants. "yellow" stars are considered right in the middle, masswise.

Most stars are classified according to their position on the main sequence of the H-R (Hertzprung-Russell) Diagram.
http://www.math.lsa.umich.edu/mmss/courses....2/HR.htm14.gif
Blue giants are massive, main sequence stars, that are undergoing hydrogen fusion at a faster rate than any other main sequence star. For this reason, they are relatively short lived/high temperature stars, hence the blue/white color.
Likewise, yellow stars are also main sequence stars that are hydrogen fusing stars.
A red giant star is not a main sequence star. It is a star that is in the twilight of its years, that is, it is a star that is no longer fusing hydrogen in its core. So, gravitational contraction causes the temperature in its helium core to rise to at least 100 million Kelvin (This is where we get carbon, by the way). There is still hydrogen fusing in a shell around the core which causes the star to expand. This expansion cools the star, therefore, the surface temperature goes down, and we perceive this decrease in temperature as a red color. Red giants have the same mass as a main sequence star, but occupy a much larger volume, so they are less dense as well.
A white dwarf is the core of a star of mass similar to our sun after it has thrown off its hydrogen envelope into space (Post red giant phase). This creates what is called a planetary nebula. The core of the star at this point is mostly carbon, and it has a high density. As long as the core is not part of a binary system, it will no longer undergo fusion and will cool to a red/brown dwarf. Eventually, the core will cool enough to no longer emit EM radiation at visible wavelengths, becoming what is called a "dead black dwarf"

When our Sun's core runs out of hydrogen in the core for fusion in about 4.5 billion years, it will expand to a red giant. Our Earth's orbit will, at that point, be inside the sun.

The apparent scale of this change will be roughly equivalent to a marble to a large beach ball.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6307/78...00/Planets4.jpg
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6307/78...00/Planets5.jpg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Im FINALLY constructing an exhibit depicting star colors (and therefore types) - I have simmered this for years, thinking spray painted tennis balls and oranges etc etc, but have finally hit upon the idea of not only an exhibit in my almost done Visitors Center, but a homewritten show title (I still dont have one) called LAMPS . it will have a variety of lamps with different colored bulbs burning . I want to depict prototypical stars like

red: antares
yellow: sun, cappella
blue/white: rigel, vega
orange: ??
infrared ?? (black light bulb)
green: theres a green star somewhere, ???

To me its all about stars stars stars, we only know the nebula, galaxies .. planets.. asteroids ... comets ... we only know they exist BECAUSE of stars! Stars are it. Can anyone add to this? Chemed provided he excellent summary above - gare


I love those kind of exhibits. Do you remember the "Electric Theater" at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago? When you entered and turned right and went through the time, telephone, sound exhibits all the way to the end and then down into the basement. There was a huge electromagnetic spectrum above the stage that they lit up as they talked about the different wavelengths. Popping an ear of corn and lighting a fluorescent lamp without wires were highlights but I also remember them lighting the smallest (a grain of wheat bulb) and the largest (a 10KW bulb) bulb. These are the things that stick with people long after the show is over.

I can see a black light painting of a galaxy and then a grain of wheat bulb hidden within to be a super-nova.

One of the great things with the Adler were the exhibits that surrounded the star theater. They kept everything dark to dark adapt ones eyes for the star show. Your lucky to have the extra room to set some of these things up outside the dome. I wish I could afford the room.
mrgare5050
Click to view attachment

We speak of one bulb to depict heavens myriad stars, but we can also use one bulb per star and therefore simulate the color, the variety, the singular magnificience to accompany our starry sky multitude effect. Owen .. you present the ultimate challenge, how to see natures greatest beacons the supernovae. This is a subject that intrigues beyond this exhibit, blinding to be sure!

Ron, memories flood in of that museum in Chicago. The electric theater I had forgotten, was it down past the picture phones, the whisper chamber etc? I dimly remember a 'gaslight' street from the 20s. Autorama .. a nuclear reactor you walked inside ..

g
Ron Walker
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jul 9 2009, 12:49 AM) *
Click to view attachment

We speak of one bulb to depict heavens myriad stars, but we can also use one bulb per star and therefore simulate the color, the variety, the singular magnificience to accompany our starry sky multitude effect. Owen .. you present the ultimate challenge, how to see natures greatest beacons the supernovae. This is a subject that intrigues beyond this exhibit, blinding to be sure!

Ron, memories flood in of that museum in Chicago. The electric theater I had forgotten, was it down past the picture phones, the whisper chamber etc? I dimly remember a 'gaslight' street from the 20s. Autorama .. a nuclear reactor you walked inside ..

g


Yes, past the whisper chamber.

I had forgotten the gaslight street and the reactor but I think they were down a different hall. Remember the walk through heart, the steel mill, the coal mine. Wow, what a great museum.
Owen Phairis
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jul 9 2009, 12:49 AM) *
Click to view attachment

We speak of one bulb to depict heavens myriad stars, but we can also use one bulb per star and therefore simulate the color, the variety, the singular magnificience to accompany our starry sky multitude effect. Owen .. you present the ultimate challenge, how to see natures greatest beacons the supernovae. This is a subject that intrigues beyond this exhibit, blinding to be sure!

Ron, memories flood in of that museum in Chicago. The electric theater I had forgotten, was it down past the picture phones, the whisper chamber etc? I dimly remember a 'gaslight' street from the 20s. Autorama .. a nuclear reactor you walked inside ..

g



Sir Gare,

It is always wonderful to see one of your ideas come to life. This group, perhaps more than most other groups, often sees ones words turn into projects and eventually become a reality. I think your dedication and creativity needs to be not only respected but commended....carry on.

Click to view attachment

Owen -
mrgare5050
Ron, the focault pendulum in the stairwell, those airplanes hanging from the ceiling.. I always got a radiometer and a gyroscope in the gift shop

Owen, we were in Paducah yesterday at Hobby Lobby and Ive added three letters to my own DREAM sign, check it out!

Click to view attachment

Owen Phairis
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jul 10 2009, 03:15 AM) *
Ron, the focault pendulum in the stairwell, those airplanes hanging from the ceiling.. I always got a radiometer and a gyroscope in the gift shop

Owen, we were in Paducah yesterday at Hobby Lobby and Ive added three letters to my own DREAM sign, check it out!

Click to view attachment


I LOVE it!!

Like Ken, I too, want to come visit your barn of BIG DREAMS.....

Owen -
Ron Walker
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jul 10 2009, 03:15 AM) *
Ron, the focault pendulum in the stairwell, those airplanes hanging from the ceiling.. I always got a radiometer and a gyroscope in the gift shop

Owen, we were in Paducah yesterday at Hobby Lobby and Ive added three letters to my own DREAM sign, check it out!

Click to view attachment


The Golden Gate Bridge model and the Bolder Dam model that filled with water.
mrgare5050
no visits yet, i need two more years!

ron check this out

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/oc...rains-1021oct21
moonmagic
gare-If my visitiors have to wait until I get things cleaned up....well, they could never visit. I don't want to see all the toys back in the box, I want them ALL OUT to play with. Wishing I had a barn,mm
mrgare5050
QUOTE(moonmagic @ Jul 11 2009, 02:03 AM) *
gare-If my visitiors have to wait until I get things cleaned up....well, they could never visit. I don't want to see all the toys back in the box, I want them ALL OUT to play with. Wishing I had a barn,mm



I heard that MM! When we shopped for a farm, the ONLY requirement I had was a barn out back, the house didnt matter! Barns were always multipurpose anyway if you think about it, farm equipment, animals, feed, hay. Now after 24 years, I go 'shopping in the barn' first. If I need a 2 by 4, I find one nailed up for example in 1986 when my band briefly played in the loft, or one still on the floor from my office in the back that I had till about 95, which briefly had a second 9 foot dome built the week the smith cylinder came home (torn down 4 months later). There are remnants in the rafters of halloween parties from the mid 80s .. The area my music stuff is in now was once the lowest level of the 'nightclub' era, where we joked our drummers friends liked to sit. Then for 10 years it was a glass studio where stained glass was done. A barn can morph along with our lives. And as a slide once said, lean tos are very american - once you have a structure, its a wall for MORE structures!

I just go thru phases.. Ive been in 'construction' phase now for quite a while, away from 'content' phase (writing, making music, giving shows, the HPA newsletter) etc .. Im bout tired of constructing, I'd like to get back into the creating content mode! gare
mrgare5050
Im posting this kind of stuff as I FINALLY learn it, so I can use it in planetarium shows I'll give one day, and to see if I can put it in words, NOT to show off my vast knowledge - indeed, I may be the only one here who doesnt know this stuff! But I think I finally understand the big picture of how stars evolve

here goes ... (gare, balancing periodic table on his shoulder)

low mass stars (up to 8 times the sun)

they happily burn hydrogen till it runs out ... as the energy outflow dims, outer gas collapses, igniting helium to hydrogen .. which bloats out the star slowly into a red giant (bye bye earth) ... then a single star like the sun slowly runs out of helium and collapses eventually to a white dwarf. BUT .. if its a double star, the white dwarf can steal gas off its partner, which causes the NOVA .. a flaring star which throws out rings of material into planetary nebulae - this can repeat, hence some of the famous repeating nova stars .. BUT .. there is a mass limit called the Chandra something, if the by stealing gas from the companion this limit is passed, a Type 1 Supernova will occur (see below)

high mass stars (over 8 times the sun)

whether they had the mass originally or 'borrowed it' from a companion .. they dont stop at helium... they have enough pressure to burn helium into carbon .. carbon into silicon .. they evolve into red supergiants with rings burning different fuels.. but this cant go on forever - the death knell occurs when they start converting to iron and nickle .. this incredibly can take place in the core of a red supergiant in a DAY ... NOW gravity kills the star.. and again that LIMIT decides the fate .. the massive crush of gravity cause the BIG TYPE II supernova explosion, but less than the limit, a neutron star is the final product .. over the limit .. the famous black hole .... BUT some scientists think they've seen these stars simply 'wink out' and go out without the explosion

have you got that?? prof gare, who still wonders why FE is iron huh
moonmagic
FE ferrum, Latin
mrgare5050
QUOTE(moonmagic @ Jan 3 2010, 12:49 AM) *
FE ferrum, Latin



ferrum is in the accusitive however? garius
Ken Miller
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jul 10 2009, 04:21 PM) *
no visits yet, i need two more years!

ron check this out

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/oc...rains-1021oct21

Gare

Are you serious about the two years? It's on my to-do list for 2010.

What worries me is that two years can drag out into even more.

Ken
mrgare5050
QUOTE(Ken Miller @ Jan 3 2010, 02:51 PM) *
Gare

Are you serious about the two years? It's on my to-do list for 2010.

What worries me is that two years can drag out into even more.

Ken




Actually I NEED someone to visit Ken, unless I draw a finish line you are right, I'll just keep doing laps!

come on down! or over ... or back east ... gggg
mrgare5050
As I thought about projecting or 'brute forcing' the moon in my planetarium sky, I vaguely remembered 'its smaller than it looks'! Indeed - 10 full moons between the pointer stars of the big dipper!


http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/webscope/activi...measureSize.PDF
mrgare5050
While working on moons, I've also started an Egyptian module for talking about their legends... Im guessing I should mention the famous (infamous) Orion theory. Not sure how to make pyramids, but how hard can they be??? g


http://egyptphoto.ncf.ca/osiris-orion_2.htm
Ken Miller
QUOTE(mrgare5050 @ Jan 22 2010, 01:00 PM) *
While working on moons, I've also started an Egyptian module for talking about their legends... Im guessing I should mention the famous (infamous) Orion theory. Not sure how to make pyramids, but how hard can they be??? g
http://egyptphoto.ncf.ca/osiris-orion_2.htm

Can you share your Egyptian module? Having spent time there, made friends there, and explored the temples, tombs, and museums, Egypt has a special connection for me.

Ken
mrgare5050
Ken you are a man for all seasons! Please share Egytian everything if you can, particularly sky related .. I also was interested in your docent experiences, I did that briefly in a historical house and loved it. This module (as you'll recall, I combined the modeling love with the planetarium love and cut a special door so I can swap in and out models which then become show themes. So far I have the village, the castle, the golf course, and still want the Big City Skyline and the Titanic. But the other day I found the small plastic pyramid/sphinx combo for a buck so today bought some fiberboard, little duct tape, wala! The pyramids - the plastic small one I tried that sand textured spray paint on .. looks good, but I may just glue sandpaper to the bigger ones. gare in da nile (or garo patra)


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